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Thread: 1986 190E 2.3-16 in NorCal

  1. #1

    1986 190E 2.3-16 in NorCal

    Hello fellow 190 enthusiasts,

    Just starting a build thread on my 190. I picked it up a month or two ago from someone who's had it for 15+ years, it currently has an approximate ~212,000 miles and I am slowly improving it. Goal is to restore it AND make it track ready. I've done some small things such as replace all tie rods, replace the valve cover gasket, etc. For pictures: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1...jJaZ21GbEdvMkE

    The plan is to cover the following items:
    • Wheels - ordered a set of TH1781s from Compomotive
    • Suspension - still deciding on whether to try and fit coilovers in (https://catuned.com/w201-1982-1993-m...ng-in-one-unit) or go with a Koni/H&R combination, replace all bushings and other necessary components. Does the subframe need reinforcement, as with M3s? If going with stiffer, non-coilover springs in the front is it necessary to reinforce the body in those sections?
    • Brakes - from my research it shows that the 400E ~300mm brake upgrade seems to be the most beneficial. I wasn't really able to find some good aftermarket rotors though... Any tips?
    • Transmission - swap in a manual. The torque converter is struggling in the auto and the auto-clutch doesn't smell so good sometimes...
    • Engine - rebuild to Euro spec, maybe a bit more, when the transmission swap occurs
    • Exhaust - definite maybe...


    Will try and keep this post reasonably up to date as I go on.

    Cheers,
    Nick
    Last edited by bandeezy; 08-31-2017 at 12:25 AM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    ON, CANADA
    Posts
    235
    Looking forward to seeing those wheels.
    Ground control is also an option and has complete rear frame adjustable arms.
    Can't go wrong with 400e brakes, if you can find 600sl even better.
    The subframe will most likely need bracing.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,898
    dont bother with aftermarket rotors, stick with brembo blanks. they can handle the track just fine. it's all up to the pads you choose and these days there's much better selection of some really great pads out there. the only bad thing about the 400's are their heft, being cast iron, they are heavy and will add a fair amount to your unsprung weight.

    with a nice exhaust, header back, you can easily make up power for the compression difference between NAM and ECE engines without changing the pistons.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximb View Post
    Looking forward to seeing those wheels.
    Ground control is also an option and has complete rear frame adjustable arms.
    Can't go wrong with 400e brakes, if you can find 600sl even better.
    The subframe will most likely need bracing.
    I'm looking forward to seeing the wheels too. Just ordered a corresponding set of Michelin Pilot Super Sport for commuting/track use to fit on these rims.

    Just checked out the options available from ground control, looks like they also have a full coilover kit. I'll reach out to them. Still not sure how stiff to go to make it still driveable on the rough CA roads.

    320mm instead of 300mm? That's a significant step up from the ~286 that are the stock rotors in the 16v... Hmm...

    Any recommendations on bracing? I'm guessing there are kits weld-in/bolt-on kits available. A friend of mine had his E46 done at a local shop, I'll check to see what that would run me.

    Quote Originally Posted by secretmachine View Post
    dont bother with aftermarket rotors, stick with brembo blanks. they can handle the track just fine. it's all up to the pads you choose and these days there's much better selection of some really great pads out there. the only bad thing about the 400's are their heft, being cast iron, they are heavy and will add a fair amount to your unsprung weight.

    with a nice exhaust, header back, you can easily make up power for the compression difference between NAM and ECE engines without changing the pistons.
    Brembo blanks in stock size (~286mm), like this, or blanks for a 400E? Right now with a set of Riken Raptor and stock brakes I can easily lock up all four wheels. Not sure how much it'll change with the new tires.

    Any recommendations for exhaust from manifold back? I've gotten a quote from Stroemung. The main reason why I was going to inspect the engine and potentially rebuild parts of it since I need to fix a few things here and there anyways: it leaks a bit of oil out of a few orifices and there's a fair amount of carbon build up in the engine potentially due to blow-by or old valve stem seals.

    Cheers,
    Nick

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    California San Mateo
    Posts
    6,639
    Welcome to the club I live in San Mateo myself. I would say focus on driveability issues and passing smog first. Suspension should be next. Watch my diy youtube videos



    My 190E Web Blog
    Modifications.....1987 190E 2.3-16V, Evolution 2 Body Kit, Evo2 Wheels, Cross/Drilled Rotors, Front Polyurethane Bushings, New Rear Link set, & Yellow Speed Racing Suspension.

    10000+ Pictures

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisfball12 View Post
    Welcome to the club I live in San Mateo myself. I would say focus on driveability issues and passing smog first. Suspension should be next. Watch my diy youtube videos



    Thanks for the videos, Chris. Actually bought this one from someone in San Mateo! It's already passed smog and fairly driveable, minus the suspension bushings and springs/shocks which were crudely cut and pretty worn. That's why I plan on doing shocks, springs and bushings in one go.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    California San Mateo
    Posts
    6,639
    The front end should be easy just make sure you have the time and a second car handy if you need to get parts. The fronts should take you a day if you're really good at wrenching. The rear is tricky as you need to source the subframe bushings making sure to get the German or Italian made bushings. Feel free to contact me via youtube or here if you have questions.
    My 190E Web Blog
    Modifications.....1987 190E 2.3-16V, Evolution 2 Body Kit, Evo2 Wheels, Cross/Drilled Rotors, Front Polyurethane Bushings, New Rear Link set, & Yellow Speed Racing Suspension.

    10000+ Pictures

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisfball12 View Post
    The front end should be easy just make sure you have the time and a second car handy if you need to get parts. The fronts should take you a day if you're really good at wrenching. The rear is tricky as you need to source the subframe bushings making sure to get the German or Italian made bushings. Feel free to contact me via youtube or here if you have questions.
    Thanks for the info, Chris! Will probably start with the fronts first since most of that seems to be the root cause for the handling issues.

    Does anyone have experience with CATuned or GroundControl? Right now, going with their full shock and spring kits seem to be two of my three options. The third being just getting a set of Koni's and non-coilover H&R springs.

    Any recommendations on where to get bushings for all four corners? I've found individual ones on Rockauto and AutohausAZ, but a kit would be really nice. The poly bushings from Hedgehog motorsports are really nice, but the price is more than I can justify.

    I put the new wheels (Compomotive TH1781 - 17x8 et35) and tires (Michelin Pilot SS - 215x45R17) on today. I was initially planning on leaving them off until I fix the soft front suspension, but not only was there a screw in my front wheel but one of the arms on the wheel disk was actually fractured all the way through. See pictures below.

    Fracture front
    Fracture rear
    Nail

    Here's a picture with the new shoes. Don't mind the missing front grille, replacing that currently.

    Cheers,
    Nick

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,898
    why would anyone drop more money on shipping than the parts costs? ake is not in a good position to sell to the US. go for these bushings instead, way better price and much better quality - http://www.strongflex.eu/en/1230-w201-190

    cant go wrong with GC suspension, jay will help you customize it to the car based on your plans of how you are going to use it. catuned is for the low look, they will not support you like GC does if you use it like it should be used.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    California San Mateo
    Posts
    6,639
    I got poly bushings in the front from hedgehog and yeah the shipping was crazy but so far 7 years in and they held up fine. If you can find them cheaper as a full kit i say go with it.
    My 190E Web Blog
    Modifications.....1987 190E 2.3-16V, Evolution 2 Body Kit, Evo2 Wheels, Cross/Drilled Rotors, Front Polyurethane Bushings, New Rear Link set, & Yellow Speed Racing Suspension.

    10000+ Pictures

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,898
    you hardly ever drive your car bud. the delrin subframe ones i got from ake have squished out from track use. strongflex is what's up.

    my advice is to not waste your money with ake. the quality is half-ass on everything made and you pay double for the pleasure. i and many others have had to learn that lesson personally. don't want to heed the warning? all good, waste your money, i'll keep the good legit part information to myself ;p
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  12. #12
    Thanks for the advice, secret. I'll place an order for a set of strongflex's bushings. Any idea what the stock dimensions are for front/rear ARB? If not, I'll measure them when I get back.

    Currently in touch with Donovan from GC, to order a set of track day/driver's school spring/shock set.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,898
    Donovan is a good dude too, he'll make it happen!
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    South of Cdn190er (Calgary)
    Posts
    2,311
    Bummer to hear the hedgehog ones don't hold up. I have a set squirrelled away for the 2.6 build. I guess that's the risk you take when you find small volume starts
    87 190e 2.3-16
    90 190e 2.6
    90 Nissan Skyline GTS-T 375rwhp -sold-

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    93
    i usually reference this for ARB dimensions
    http://forums.190rev.net/showthread....977#post227977

    i made a video for replacing rear subframe bushings if your planning on doing those. Since your using non-oem mounts take the the home depot tools used with a grain of salt since the shape of the mounts might be different.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z_W_cZeX88
    replacing the suspension arms is easier w/ the subframe atleast lowered.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,898
    a change of the durometer for the delrin could've made them last longer but it's no worries in the end now that there's more options on the market. strongflex has a great price point and the quality of the poly they use and the supporting hardware is excellent. their full kit is also for literally everything, even the toe arm.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Nor-cal
    Posts
    13
    I'm in nor-cal myself too. I live in the central valley in Modesto. I have a 84 190d for about a year that I'll be doing some things to it soon as well

  18. #18
    Installed the front struts and springs from GC last weekend. Ride is very nice, much stiffer and not as spongy as before. The front tires no longer rub on the fenders!

    Thanks for the info, Chr1s, I'll be doing the subframe mounts once I do all the other suspension bushings. I'll be sure to look at your post then.

    Sweet, Joemon. Open up a thread and post some pics!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Joemon View Post
    I'm in nor-cal myself too. I live in the central valley in Modesto. I have a 84 190d for about a year that I'll be doing some things to it soon as well
    Cool, what are your plans for it? You should post some before and after pics!

  20. #20
    Has anyone installed the rear subframe bushings from strongflex? The rear subframe front bushings are straightforward as the bushing that is inserted into the subframe rests against the chassis and on the other side the washer-like poly bushing is sandwiched between the subframe and the provided larger metal washer, then fastened by the subframe bolt. However, the washer-like bushings on the rear subframe rear bushings don't really make any sense to me. I would have imagined that they go between the subframe and the chassis (inverse of the front) but the hole in this washer isn't large enough for the threaded part that sticks out of the chassis. Looking at strongflex's website, it seems to be by design in this picture: https://www.strongflex.eu/en/w124/16...553521993.html

    Unfortunately they don't provide any proper documentation. I will try to give them a call tomorrow, but any help would be appreciated.

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