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Thread: 190e - v8 - EvoII

  1. #1

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    190e - v8 - EvoII

    Hi everyone,

    Backstory:
    I've been an evolving petrol head for a while now and I've just started my first project and boy did I jump straight into the deep end. The most I've ever done before was a fluid service, however I have friends who are car mad and I've helped them do small things here and there (mostly JDM).

    So let's start at the beginning, I've been a huge fan of the Mercedes AMG F1 team for a few years, I've also been an avid BMW fan and have owned a few bimmers (). The time came for me to buy a new car as I was getting bored with my BMW - Mercedes had my attention, specifically an AMG.

    I stumbled across an old post from Nico Rosberg of his father driving an Evo II (). The car caught my attention and I wanted one straight away, only with more power; the car I previously owned was 400hp and I'm seeking something similar. I have spent the last 6months+ looking for the perfect starting car to make a replica EvoII DTM car with a modern engine.

    Buying a Car:
    Unfortunately I live in Australia where european cars are not cheap or plentiful. So I had to scour the internet for a 190e 2.6L in decent condition. Eventually I found a 1989 190e outside Melbourne in decent condition - a UK import. My first issue was that I live 2000kms away... so I found a local mechanic to check the car over - He was an awesome guy - shout out to Eason's Car Centre.

    He checked over the car and all was good... haha who am I kidding. Brakes were shot, tyres were shit and bushings perished.... but other then that everything worked well. The engine was perfect! I'd found a winner, and for the price of $3500 + flights + tyres + petrol (approx $4100).

    Unfortunately the owner was a wanker who sold me a car with an empty fuel tank (despite me pleading him to put $30 in before purchase) . My first modification was getting tyres that could get me home safely, the brakes were low, but would make 2000km of highway driving no issues. So I took the car on a 2000km trip home, and amazingly I had no issues

    - Day 1
    - Day 2
    - The Car
    - Interior
    - Interior 2
    - Interior 3

    My Modification Plans [constantly being updated]:
    -Evo II widebody kit ()
    -Respray the car designo selenite grey magno ()
    -Wider wheels and sticky tyres
    -Upgraded handling and suspension (Hedgehog LCA, and a coilover setup - will need custom fabrication)
    -Big brake kit
    -Aftermarket steering wheel (hopefully with paddle shifters)
    -M113k 5.5L supercharged v8 engine
    -722.6 Auto Gearbox
    -w211 cluster
    -Custom exhaust
    -Bucket seats
    -Upgraded diff (not yet decided)
    -Restored interior


    Stripping the interior:
    I started by stripping the interior. The front seats are stuffed, the rears need some restoration. The rear parcel shelf is ruined. The dash is 90% ok but was extremely dry and on the way to cracking if not attended to. The carpet was quite good. The AC vents are all stuffed. Door cards need need restoration.

    - Half the interior stripped. I'm laying it out in the same configuration to reduce confusion later
    // - Dash out, that was a bitch.

    The roof lining and sunroof remain. I will probably come back to this at a later date, especially because the sunroof is not working smoothly, I think the tracks are stuffed.

    Pulling the Engine/Gearbox:
    The engine will be upgraded to a v8 from the M113 range and that means the 2.6L has to go. I recruited my brother for this and he said it was a 3 hour job.... That was optimistic I thought. We unplugged most of the stuff in the engine bay in no time, intercooler came out easily. Fluids done without issue.

    The step I got stuck on was removing the exhaust from the manifold. The bolts are totally stuffed and we couldn't get bolts undone.

    - Underbody
    - Engine

    Update: 06/03/17:This was a long weekend, but I finally made it there. I had 3 big issues to overcome in order to get the engine out; a massive hangover, needing 2 people for most things, and trying to work with shitty old stripped bolts in tight spaces. Eventually I got the damn thing out with a lot of swearing. I started on Saturday afternoon, unfortunately over Sat night a few litres of fuel leaked from the car (don't ask me how), so when I was working on it all day Sunday I was in a stinking hot shed full of petrol fumes. The gearbox was stubborn and did not want to drop, it took a prybar and 3 people pulling to get it to drop away from the driveshaft, once that happened it was pretty straightforward to get out.

    - Petrol leak + a full bag of rags trying to soak it up
    - Engine halfway out
    - Empty engine bay, plus a whole lot of Coolant, Oil, Water and Fuel under the car
    - Engine + Gearbox out
    - Exhaust out
    - M113k resting on my engine crane

    Next on the 'To Do' list:
    Next up is getting the fabrication done to fit the m113k and 722.6.

    Where you can follow my build:
    -Here
    -Instagram @190e55

    Shoutouts to people who have helped me with my build:
    -Thanks to SecretMachine who has given me some advice on what direction to take
    -Thanks to GetToolsDirect Maroochydoore who have provided me with a whole bunch of tools at cost prices
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Anasasis; 04-15-2017 at 04:42 AM. Reason: update 12/04/17

  2. #2

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    Here is an option to obtain your 400hp

    http://turbobandit.com/TURBO-Engine-tuning

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamaicawagon View Post
    Here is an option to obtain your 400hp

    http://turbobandit.com/TURBO-Engine-tuning
    Thanks for the suggestion, I have come across this website before, it's a possibility, but not what I plan to do to the car.
    I've had turbo cars before and am wanting something different this time around, hence the v8 n/a or supercharged m113 idea.

    I've been told time and time again by my friends that if I just want high HP cheaply do a 1jz or 2jz swap - they're probably right, but it's not a Mercedes with a 2jz imo.

  4. #4
    Please dont sell out and do a stupid motor swap like a 1jz. Honestly I think you will be alot happier staying pure to the brand. Look around all those hybrid swapped cars get alot of hype from media and then disappear, you never see them again. Cause they have no realistic value. If I was youd Id build a inline 6 24 valve turbo for power. Or find a sl500 v8 with a custom bellhousing and manual trans, reason being that a good sl500 motor is already abover 300HP with a few bolt on I dont think a modest 350 isnt attainable and that is plenty for a 190

  5. #5

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    Get a 5.6 m117, swap crank and rods into a 5.0 m119 and then twin turbo. If you just want 400 rwhp then that set up(minus the turbos) should achieve with a good tune or small compression increase. The m113k might be easier if you have a complete car.
    I'm gonna go with 119 once my m104K is finished.
    You'll find the m113k in 2003+ 55amg or you can find some on ebay ~$3000

  6. #6
    Neat project.
    93 400e m119 5.0L and T5 manual transmission
    Ms3x, nitrous, and a 3.69 gear

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by merckrest View Post
    Please dont sell out and do a stupid motor swap like a 1jz. Honestly I think you will be alot happier staying pure to the brand. Look around all those hybrid swapped cars get alot of hype from media and then disappear, you never see them again. Cause they have no realistic value. If I was youd Id build a inline 6 24 valve turbo for power. Or find a sl500 v8 with a custom bellhousing and manual trans, reason being that a good sl500 motor is already abover 300HP with a few bolt on I dont think a modest 350 isnt attainable and that is plenty for a 190
    Thanks for the input. I can't agree more about being a sellout, my friends/family just don't get it. You need to keep the car a purebreed imo.
    My last car was a |6, this time I want a v configuration engine and more cylinders, so v8 it is. Plus my research pointed to m113 as a good engine swap due to minimal fabrication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximb View Post
    Get a 5.6 m117, swap crank and rods into a 5.0 m119 and then twin turbo. If you just want 400 rwhp then that set up(minus the turbos) should achieve with a good tune or small compression increase. The m113k might be easier if you have a complete car.
    I'm gonna go with 119 once my m104K is finished.
    You'll find the m113k in 2003+ 55amg or you can find some on ebay ~$3000
    $3000 usd right? Plus shipping to Aus = a lot more in AUD. I've got an option or two in Australia for a decent price, I'm chasing them down for a good deal.
    A stock m113k is 350kw which is more than enough power in a little 190e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raffaelli View Post
    Neat project.
    Thanks!
    I want to find time to make a youtube/instagram for people who are more visual. I've been looking for camera's to buy online but I'm honestly already swamped trying to learn about everything 190e.


    Edit - Updated OP with information. I bought a m113k today Should arrive in a week or two and by then the 2.6L will be gone. It is for sale in Australia for anyone interested please PM me.
    Last edited by Anasasis; 02-28-2017 at 03:25 AM. Reason: good news ;)

  8. #8

    Join Date
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    Nice project keep us updated
    My 190E Web Blog
    Modifications.....1987 190E 2.3-16V, Evolution 2 Body Kit, Evo2 Wheels, Cross/Drilled Rotors, Front Polyurethane Bushings, New Rear Link set, & Yellow Speed Racing Suspension.

    10000+ Pictures

  9. #9

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    cheers mate!! congrats on finding that 113k right away >:)
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  10. #10

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    subscribed. I just joined copart and am actively looking for a salvaged e55k right now for this same swap. Just a heads up I recently found some stand alone ecus that should work too. I debating that or swapping all the ignition and everything from the donor car.
    1991 Auto 2.6 (Gone)
    1992 Auto 2.6 Sportline (Getting full resto)
    2001 clk 430
    1999 Lexus RX300 (Totaled)
    2002 C32 amg (65mm pulley, EC tune, Tien coilovers, 18" renntech monolites, Wald body kit)

  11. #11

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    Standalones with twin DBW circuits and 16 ignition coil drivers? Do tell!
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  12. #12

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    As a fellow Aussie I approve of this!!

    Keep us all updated

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by insame1 View Post
    subscribed. I just joined copart and am actively looking for a salvaged e55k right now for this same swap. Just a heads up I recently found some stand alone ecus that should work too. I debating that or swapping all the ignition and everything from the donor car.
    Please share. Initially I'm trying to use the standard ECU/TCU etc. but standalone might be required if I can't get standard to work.

    Update: 05/03/17, check OP for updated work.

  14. #14

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    Update 12/04/16:

    Last 3-4 weeks have been slow; mostly spent waiting on parts. We got hit with some bad weather from the cyclone in Aus and the shed got filled with some runoff. Had to give it a clean out, luckily nothing is damaged.
    My m113k finally arrived; I have someone coming to give me a quote for fabrication this week, hopefully should get the thing fitted in the next few weeks if all goes well.
    I've been just cleaning up the engine bay and trying to take things out and suss out what will stay/go. It's such a shit of a job and I keep coming across old nuts that get stripped very easily

    Pics:
    Exhaust out - http://i.imgur.com/8BBHQ2n.jpg
    M113k resting on my engine crane - http://i.imgur.com/B2tmuir.jpg?1

    The next step is to get the fab work done on the engine bay, I'll try and get some information/pictures posted should anyone want to do the same swap in the future.

  15. #15

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    i would be interested to see what kind of "STANDALONE" ECU you are going to get to run that car. Going to need something with DBW support.

  16. #16

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    One DBW isn't the hard part, for the m113k motor it's twin DBW, throttle and supercharger both use it. Then the ecu also has to do 8 ign output wasted spark or 16 individual ign drivers. That's why I went the four 4-channel ign module route with mine.

    Anasasis, be prepared to convert the steering to rack and pinion. The m113's exhaust port on the head lands right on top of the steering box, leaving no room for the manifold. The effort needed to move the steering box down, and the idler arm to match, plus correcting the bump steer introduced by lowering the steering setup is going to cost you just as much as converting to a rack. The steering setup end to end is 48" fyi.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 190e1jz View Post
    i would be interested to see what kind of "STANDALONE" ECU you are going to get to run that car. Going to need something with DBW support.
    I'm using the stock ECU.

    Quote Originally Posted by secretmachine View Post
    Anasasis, be prepared to convert the steering to rack and pinion. The m113's exhaust port on the head lands right on top of the steering box, leaving no room for the manifold. The effort needed to move the steering box down, and the idler arm to match, plus correcting the bump steer introduced by lowering the steering setup is going to cost you just as much as converting to a rack. The steering setup end to end is 48" fyi.
    Yeah, I'm planning on going to a rack as per your suggestion. You mentioned a s15 rack, I can easily source one so I will probably work from that suggestion. I've still got to figure out the whole steering/suspension/brakes/wheels. I want to get top of the line items so I don't have to get something better later on, but my budget has limits and I need to keep that in the back of my head.

    I'm learning this as I go and it's making sense but every time I feel confident about something I learn about a bunch of new challenges. But overall I'm having fun :)

  18. #18

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    Does anyone know if the rack in the e55 will fit in the 190? I am guessing it would need cut down and re tapped.
    1991 Auto 2.6 (Gone)
    1992 Auto 2.6 Sportline (Getting full resto)
    2001 clk 430
    1999 Lexus RX300 (Totaled)
    2002 C32 amg (65mm pulley, EC tune, Tien coilovers, 18" renntech monolites, Wald body kit)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    The car caught my attention and I wanted one straight away, only with more power; the car I previously owned was 400hp and I'm seeking something similar.
    Don't overlook weight and gearing. You're now starting with a chassis that's some 1000 lbs lighter than your old BMW. You may not need massive power when the car is so much lighter to start with.

    And then there's gearing, which most people foolishly overlook. Lancer Evolutions are known for their explosive acceleration, but most have "only" 300-400 hp. The very short gearing makes the most of engine output. Top speed suffers...but who cares? Especially in Australia where you can't drive very fast anyway.

    All of this to say, a smaller/lighter engine with more modest power output (coupled with a shorter final drive ratio) could be all you really need or want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    I have spent the last 6months+ looking for the perfect starting car to make a replica EvoII DTM car with a modern engine.
    Please consider doing an Evo I replica instead. The Evo II look is totally played out, and the Evo I is much classier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    -Respray the car designo selenite grey magno
    Good choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    Solarbeam Yellow ... or Green Hell Magno
    Hell no. Those colors would look awful on such a boxy, slab-sided car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    a coilover setup - will need custom fabrication
    Don't overlook the existing, off-the-shelf options. Can't go wrong with Ground Control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    -4 point Roll cage (undecided about this)
    A 4-point rollbar will give you a good place to mount harnesses (assuming that's why you're thinking about this in the first place), but won't provide any real safety or chassis benefits. If you plan to run fixed-back race seats and harnesses, you may not have a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anasasis View Post
    -Upgraded diff (not yet decided)
    Look into the Nissan R200 swap. This gets back to what I was saying before about reducing effective gearing.
    1987 W201 190E 16v: Vintage racer
    1990 300CE-24 Coupe: Daily driver
    1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16: Weekend toy

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    Don't overlook weight and gearing. You're now starting with a chassis that's some 1000 lbs lighter than your old BMW. You may not need massive power when the car is so much lighter to start with.
    My BMW weighed 1400kg, the merc weighs 1200kg. The difference is not that big really.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    And then there's gearing, which most people foolishly overlook. Lancer Evolutions are known for their explosive acceleration, but most have "only" 300-400 hp. The very short gearing makes the most of engine output. Top speed suffers...but who cares? Especially in Australia where you can't drive very fast anyway. All of this to say, a smaller/lighter engine with more modest power output (coupled with a shorter final drive ratio) could be all you really need or want.
    I've already bought the engine mate. I'm set on a m113k.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    Please consider doing an Evo I replica instead. The Evo II look is totally played out, and the Evo I is much classier.
    The look is not played out in Australia, perhaps overseas it is more common. This is more of a personal preference anyway as I have to drive it and enjoy the looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    Hell no. Those colors would look awful on such a boxy, slab-sided car.
    Yeah, I agree. Those colours are off the list. It was a fleeting idea after I saw a few AMG GTs and got too excited.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    Don't overlook the existing, off-the-shelf options. Can't go wrong with Ground Control.
    I didn't know about this option. Looks good, but perhaps too expensive once shipped. I will have to look into it further; something local might be a better option.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    A 4-point rollbar will give you a good place to mount harnesses (assuming that's why you're thinking about this in the first place), but won't provide any real safety or chassis benefits. If you plan to run fixed-back race seats and harnesses, you may not have a choice.
    I'm not sure I want the 4 point anymore. It might not be necessary; like you said the safety and chassis improvements are negligible. It can always be something I add at a later date if I change my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanEvo View Post
    Look into the Nissan R200 swap. This gets back to what I was saying before about reducing effective gearing.
    Yeah, they are easy to find and cheap to get; should do the trick.

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