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  1. #1

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    2.3-16 Project

    I thought I'd introduce myself (by "myself" I mean my 190...)

    I had been searching for a 2.3-16 project for quite some time, and finally found, what I think to be, a good candidate.

    http://i.imgur.com/iUiYiXw.jpg

    The compression is down in the #1 cylinder. I pulled the valve-cover off while diagnosing and quickly found the cams to be off. I instantly feared the tensioner was shot and the engine was doomed with a bent valve or 8. However at TDC I found that each cam was off by one tooth. The exhaust was offset clockwise (early)... the intake counterclockwise (late). Fortunately this actually puts the motor FURTHER from piston/valve contact, so I stopped worrying. I suspect that the motor was rebuilt (the head is SPOTLESS inside) and simply assembled incorrectly. The sprocket alignment holes are in fact ACROSS from each other at TDC... just not across from each other at the centerline of the cams. :/ I set it right last weekend

    The intake sprocket looks terrible (thrust wear from the chain) so I'm hoping to find a good used one. Other than that, it goes into the garage this weekend to pull the motor! Time to get that compression up across all 4 pots.

    I've had some great insight and feedback from some local owners via this forum. So, thanks!
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  2. #2

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    As I recall the sprockets are hard to find, possibly NLA. As an owner that has lost a few exhaust valves, it's amazing how well the engine will go with low psi in one bore.
    The Biggest Bargain From Germany Since Wernher Von Braun - Car & Driver November 1983

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTI View Post
    As I recall the sprockets are hard to find, possibly NLA. As an owner that has lost a few exhaust valves, it's amazing how well the engine will go with low psi in one bore.
    Quote Originally Posted by manwellamg View Post
    Engine is/was meant to hold together. It did set a few world records.
    It is beefy! I just tore into a Toyota 4AGE (1.6L) and the engineering differences are apparent. A totally different approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by secretmachine View Post
    i have two set of sprockets up in the sale section
    Thanks for the heads-up! (I searched for "sprockets" and didn't come across any, but searching your started threads did the trick) I'll get the machine-shop's take on the thrust wear.

  4. #4

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    Engine is/was meant to hold together. It did set a few world records.
    86 16V MS-II v3.0 EDIS IRTB's
    87 16V converted auto wifeys ride
    92 Sportline auto daily driver
    03 RS6 02 S6 03 986 02 Widebody 4.2
    03 Excursion Powerstroke official tow vehicle for the enclosed race car trailer
    91 MR2 Turbo, 3 miatas, 99 Cobra 'vert, 3 1st gen celicas few SUV's and some other cars

  5. #5

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    Fremont CA - Bay Area
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    i have two set of sprockets up in the sale section
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  6. #6

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    I couldn't help but think that the timing chain was making too much noise. Despite my plan to pull the motor, I wanted to solve what I knew to be existing issues. This way I know things are correct when I run the rebuilt engine.

    After tightening up two VERY loose exhaust flange bolts I thought I'd install my snazzy new manual timing chain tensioner.

    The tensioner installed in the car is unlike any other example I've seen on a 16v. No large cap (it had a small inner cap, and no "one-way" snap-ring piston assembly. Here's what came out:



    In the upper right of the pic is the cap that threads internally into the head of the body. In it is a one-way checkvalve. In the end of the piston there is a spring and ball that is a mini pressure regulator (shown). The little ball is on a plate that, as installed on my car, was sitting completely off to the side. It was simply installed incorrectly, allowing oil to just flow by at a lower pressure than intended for this tensioner... which I'm not sure was even intended for this engine. Anyone know what this tensioner is for, if not for a 16v?

    At any rate... I just can't WAIT to see what other damage is in store!

  7. #7

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    That's the shortly used version 2. There's actually 3 version that have been used.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  8. #8

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    Good to know! Thanks! Do you know where I might be able to find part numbers for this unit? The typical parts websites don't seem to break it down very well.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3f05q View Post
    Good to know! Thanks! Do you know where I might be able to find part numbers for this unit? The typical parts websites don't seem to break it down very well.
    I have a few threads posts where i break down the version 3, i've never had any other version in hand besides early first and the final version.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by secretmachine View Post
    I have a few threads posts where i break down the version 3, i've never had any other version in hand besides early first and the final version.
    I'll take a gander. :)

  11. #11

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    I decided I needed a motivational "win" before pulling the motor.

    The sunroof wasn't operational. I could hear the motor but no action. I pried the headliner panel down (didn't like that at all, but a necessary evil) and discovered the typical broken cable end due to no servicing. I got to work with some thicker sheet metal and got creative with a vice and some scrap angle-iron:

    http://i.imgur.com/taV8cv9.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/ggWodqg.jpg

    Lubed it all up well, repaired the air deflector while i was in there, and all is well mechanically.

    One of the thin stainless rails that the headliner panel runs on is mangled and cut through the headliner. Is this a junkyard only item?

  12. #12

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    http://forums.190rev.net/showthread....851#post518851

    Quote Originally Posted by secretmachine View Post
    updated tensioner part number assembly is as follows:
    104-050-01-66 outer tensioner body and ratchet pin
    102-050-17-11 inner tensioner screw cap
    102-993-05-01 tensioner spring
    102-991-00-01 nylon spring anti-flex cylinder pin
    007603-020100 outer tensioner crush washer
    007603-027101 inner tensioner crush washer

    outer body with ratchet pin fully retracted installed into block first. inner cap with nylon pin and spring installed after. do not put the tensioner all the way together then install, it will break the chain.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by secretmachine View Post
    <stuff>
    Thank you, sir! Invaluable.

    I rebuilt the driver's seat switch assembly (not as bad as I thought it'd be) and the trunk lock. Good stuff.

    Time to pull the motor. Any recommendations on bearing and ring brands? If it's "stick with MB parts", great; if it's "actually THIS brand is superior..." then great too.

  14. #14

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    Glyco is common and I've used them often. I prefer the KS (kolbenschmidt) but those take more time to find. Rings I've always used OE.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  15. #15

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    Finally moving forward... Time to go piston shopping. Given the high price of MB pistons I have the opportunity to order up pistons and up the CR.

    Any reason that the NAM CIS and EZL can't handle the european CR of 10.5:1?

    I fully intend to convert to EFI at a later time, but hoping to run the freshly rebuilt motor on the factory fuel/ignition systems.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3f05q View Post
    Finally moving forward... Time to go piston shopping. Given the high price of MB pistons I have the opportunity to order up pistons and up the CR.

    Any reason that the NAM CIS and EZL can't handle the european CR of 10.5:1?

    I fully intend to convert to EFI at a later time, but hoping to run the freshly rebuilt motor on the factory fuel/ignition systems.
    The NAM EZL and CIS can handle 10.5 even 11.5cr

    CIS will need to be calibrated for proper fuel mixture.

    EHA needs to be set to the correct ma ECE spec.
    Air fuel mixture needs to be calibrated accordingly.

    The EZL is fixed so nothing you can do there

    The only disadvantage is that you won't take full advantage of the timing map because the ECE EZL has a slightly more aggressive map vs NAM.

    The torque curve will be fairly flat.

    What will this mean in terms of power...

    160hp with 150-160lbft @ the wheels.

    Limiting factory will be duration on the stock cam.

    On stock cams the limit is 160hp +/- 5hp @ the wheels.

    Look into longer rods 149mm and bump cr to 10.5 that will be a very nice bump and great reliability.

    This info is based from a lot of dyno time and testing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5thscaleracer View Post
    The NAM EZL and CIS can handle 10.5 even 11.5cr
    I'm assuming that the ECE folks are running their 10.5:1 cars on 91 octane. Would it be a stretch to run NAM EZL w/ 10.5:1 on 91?

    I'm suspecting that the actual dynamic compression isn't terribly aggressive, but calculating that is where my knowledge falls flat. The machine shop is ready to order pistons and I'd hate to get overzealous on the spec.

    This info is based from a lot of dyno time and testing.
    Which is why I love this forum. :)

    Thanks so much for the advice!

  18. #18

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    2.3-16 Project

    Quote Originally Posted by 3f05q View Post
    I'm assuming that the ECE folks are running their 10.5:1 cars on 91 octane. Would it be a stretch to run NAM EZL w/ 10.5:1 on 91?

    I'm suspecting that the actual dynamic compression isn't terribly aggressive, but calculating that is where my knowledge falls flat. The machine shop is ready to order pistons and I'd hate to get overzealous on the spec.



    Which is why I love this forum. :)

    Thanks so much for the advice!
    Yes 10.5cr on 91 is not an issue at all even with 89.


    Are you keeping he rods stock? With upgrades pistons?

    Make sure you get the motor balanced if you do. Taking weight only at the top will require some balancing of the bottom end.

    Don't forget to address fueling especially acceleration enrichment.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5thscaleracer View Post
    Yes 10.5cr on 91 is not an issue at all even with 89.


    Are you keeping he rods stock? With upgrades pistons?

    Make sure you get the motor balanced if you do. Taking weight only at the top will require some balancing of the bottom end.

    Don't forget to address fueling especially acceleration enrichment.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, and it will get balanced. I'll be dropping off the flywheel and PP soon. Pistons will be JE/Wiseco (same parent company now, it seems).

    I intend to get a wideband set up even prior to going with EFI, so that should help with tuning the CIS.

  20. #20

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    ON, CANADA
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    Today replaced rotors and painted brake shield. Sent off calipers for sandblasting and rebuild. For my 190e 2.3 8v.
    Next is brake lines, fuel filter and 1 fuel line
    Last edited by Maximb; 09-09-2017 at 12:26 AM. Reason: I meant to post this in the "what did you do today" mod, maybe relocate?

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