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Thread: Making an 8v go fast for cheap. (aka; Budgetbuild)

  1. #1

    Making an 8v go fast for cheap. (aka; Budgetbuild)

    Hi,

    I've been watching this forum for a couple of months now.

    Building an auto 8v to go as fast as possible, for little to no money.
    I will try and document cost along the way, no one in my area seems to touch these cars though. (Canada, eh?)
    I cant say I've ever even seen one in person with wheels, etc. maybe if there's been sleepers around?
    I'm going to need some help from everyone as to what fits into what.

    I like building weird cars that don't follow the "norm" as you may figure out along the way.
    I've always liked these cars growing up, glad one came my way.

    I like going really fast.
    I like going sideways.
    I like tire smoke.
    I like shiny things.
    I don't like spending money.

    We will review these points later, as this will be the basis of my project.



    I'll post what has been accomplished thus far in the next few days...

    Maybe we can be friends?


    Thanks,

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Martinsville, VA
    Posts
    3,531
    I made a fast 8v for cheap. Ended up being more expensive and time consuming than the average project.
    Don't plan on going sideways in an auto 8v unless its raining..
    1985 190e 2.0 8v forged internals, 5spd MT, EFI, 16v interior, sportline exterior, working on the turbo header now

    1986 190e 2.3-16 Nam, 5spd MT, stripped to the bone, I swear I'll start building it into a track car soon, seriously.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,851
    weld the diff (cheap), swap to a manual (not cheap), add NOS (relatively cheap), turbo it (not cheap), get crap tires and over inflate them in the rear (cheap), get 400e or 500sl springs in it (cheap), gut it(free).
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  4. #4
    I had nitrous on my 8valve automatic. Ran a 150 shot.

    Should be a video of it on YouTube.

    I think your wasting your time. Have fun doing it.
    93 400e m119 5.0L and T5 manual transmission
    Ms3x, nitrous, and a 3.69 gear

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    6,002
    Stripping out the excess "luxury" weight is the first step. Mercedes tried to make the car lighter than the rest of their models at the time, but they had to provide comfort for that $20K price point;

    I've wondered if converting the CIS to carbs that dump large volumes of air and fuel through a non-CAT exhaust system would make for a better WOT car, with a resulting lumpy (or non-existant) idle.
    The Biggest Bargain From Germany Since Wernher Von Braun - Car & Driver November 1983

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Posts
    818
    Check out this thread for some 8v ITB / EFI conversion parts. DBMO is still developing them however :]

    http://forum.190rev.net/showthread.p...KE-DIY-FLANGES

    welcome to the Rev!
    1993 190e 3.0

  7. #7
    Thanks!

    Haha much appreciated, however I plan on m103/104 (haven't decided yet) and a manual, as it is auto stock.

    Hopefully it will turn into a pretty nice car.

    A little history.
    190e 2.3 8v.
    85k(roughly) kms.
    Was light blue, someone professionally painted it black.(I plan on painting it)
    Seems to be little to no visible rust(hard to find in southern Ontario with the salt used in the winter time)

    Bought it with a broken timing chain.

    Since then, I have pulled the head. Seems to only have a bent #2 exhaust valve. I plan on fixing it, and selling the running motor/trans.

    Best part is I only paid $300.

    Will post pics in the morning.

    Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

  8. #8
    So, Here's the car.


    What I opened the hood to when I bought it.


    Bent #2 Exh Valve.


    Rear Shot.



    As I mentioned earlier, I plan on swapping a M103/104 in.
    A few questions that maybe someone can answer for me?

    Which engine would be more reliable for a turbo application? My plans were to be around 500ft/lbs (I will be doing a wire tuck, so im not all too concerned about the biodegradable harnesses)
    I plan on using standalone engine management and doing a conversion to efi.


    In saying this, would a Getrag be (RELIABLY) strong enough to hold this type of power/abuse?


    The last question would be about the clutch assembly.
    What combination is strong enough to hold this type of power together?
    I understand that one of the most difficult pieces to obtain in this swap is a single mass flywheel.
    I remember reading somewhere that a sprinter flywheel may work, is this true? Is there a downfall to this option? Can anyone verify this?

    Again, the name of the game here is LOW COST.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    4,158
    Whats low cost to you mean
    1986 201.034 "Berthilda" 5-speed, Evo II wheels 225/45/17, 400E front swaybar, 400e rear brakes
    1986 201.024 M104 engine, 5-speed Conversion, Updated LE trim console, 400E front sway bar, W202 springs, Limited slip Diff, 16v Steering box, 3" magnaflow exhaust system, 16v body kit, 16v Fuel tank, 16v Brake Booster, 400E calipers, MS2 3.57.
    1993 201.029 Sportline LE.

  10. #10
    My goal is to be under $2500, I plan on buying/selling this and that to make some money back.
    Figuring out what I need is step #1 though.

    I have my eye on a m104 3.0 mechanically injected in my area for fairly cheap, but want to figure out why most people seem to build m103's for turbo.

    I have built many cars in the past, I am a Chrysler technician, and a fairly competent fabricator.
    I'm not worried about labour in the slightest, just finding the correct parts.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
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    3,851
    500ft/lbs and over for under $2500 is not going to happen. straight up. 16v getrag cannot hold that much power nor any stock merc clutch or axle halfshaft from that era. you've got a lot of drivetrain stuff to figure out for that power level. some ambitious revvers are putting s13 diffs in the back and using a more modern merc 6-speed. not sure from where, though I'm sure someone who knows will chime in the model.

    for the engine, get the early m104.980. It has piston oil squirters and a higher rev limit.

    people build the m103 because it is low compression, dirt cheap and super common

    as a warning, even rare stuff doesn't sell easy, you will sit on a lot of parts. been there, still there.
    Last edited by secretmachine; 12-30-2014 at 11:10 AM.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  12. #12
    That's what I want to know.

    I should also mention...
    I have a Tremec tr-6060 in my basement with no home, has anyone ever converted the bellhousing?
    I also have a SRT-8 getrag diff kicking around. I know the smaller Merc diffs fit, I know this diff was shared by Merc/Chrysler for a few cars and are nearly indestructable.
    Anyone know if these could fit? I'm more concerned about the axle splines fitting. I have no problems cutting and welding the body or subframe.

    Im guessing that the TR-6060 would have a hard time fitting, as I've seen a couple LS swapped 190's and they all seem to had to have the trans tunnel cut.

    My ideal way about this would be keep most of the project MB, but I have no set path right now, per-say.

    If 500 is too big of a number, what is a more realistic capacity for the 717.404?



    I originally went to look at the car to make it into a drift car with a toyota 1jz/2jz.
    I saw it in person and decided it was too good of a car to put into the wall, also with it being a 1985 where I live it is exempt from emissions test.
    So, now it's going to be my summer car for next year.

    Basicallly all I want is inline 6, turbo, wheelspin.

    Which is what brought me here....

  13. #13
    s13 diff as in Nissan parts?

    Pardon my ignorance...

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Albany, Oregon
    Posts
    635
    The 6 speeds are from SLKs /r170 . That is what Luther used . One of the very few manuals .
    ____________________
    1993 190e 2.6 AMG Clone/Almandine
    1990 190e 2.6 / Black
    1997 e320 / White
    2003 Ranger 2.3 16V

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
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    3,851
    Quote Originally Posted by _McKnight View Post
    s13 diff as in Nissan parts?

    Pardon my ignorance...
    Yes, I think it called rs2000 diff or something? the srt-8 chrylser/merc diff is interesting, any pics?

    717.404 can handle 400hp and just a little bit more, there are pics of twisted drivelines, broken CV's and halfshafts in this power range.

    for the splines you may not need to go too crazy, you could maybe modify the srt-8 flange to meet the inner cv of the half-shaft like those who have done the nissan diff swap.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Fremont CA - Bay Area
    Posts
    3,851
    search turbobandit, you might get some inspiration
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  17. #17
    Unfortunately I haven't had the car high enough in the air to figure out exactly how the diffs in these cars are set up.

    I hate cv axles.
    I've been through 12 in my saab, so fortunately I've figured out ways to make them a little stronger. You can't make them much better though.

    What joint seems to break? Inners? Or outers?

    Maybe 400 is a more realistic for this budget build.

    I have seen the turbobandit stuff, crazy shit.
    Partially the reason I said 500 as a number.
    I wasn't really realizing that they use an auto trans, which makes a ton of sense.
    The auto trans in a srt or hemi vehicle (mercedes trans) is rated for 850ft/lbs or something crazy. Auto's are generally a stronger component than a manual.

    All of my friends use s chassis or skyline stuff and are always parting them out or scrapping them. So finding a diff from one of those would be a piece of cake.

    Only one pic of the diff and it's terrible.


    I will post a couple closer pics when I get home later tonight.

  18. #18
    The engine I am looking at is the 104.980, the only concern I am having is compression ratio.
    From what I have read it is 10:1, from my experience this is a little high for a turbo engine...
    I plan on running meth injection also to cool it off a bit, as we don't have e85 where I am.

    Anyone have an opinion?
    I'll be using that holset vgt above.

  19. #19

    Join Date
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    Fremont CA - Bay Area
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    Check out some carnage from Hendrik's build to get an idea.

    right on the shaft
    http://forum.190rev.net/showthread.p...419#post521419

    http://forum.190rev.net/showthread.p...435#post521435

    I know the flexdisk in the chrylser are merc parts so that one could work. no real mods to the pinion flange. it looks to have a two bolt back? similar to w124 if so, might be able to do something there since you fab.

    you can put in pistons from a m104.992 (cheap/plentiful) to bring down the CR, they are dished as opposed to flat top m104.980
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  20. #20
    That's awesome.
    I can't believe the way that driveshaft failed.

    The question now is if he was using a race compound tire, I don't plan on doing any drag launches, mostly drifting and burnouts only on street tires.
    It was mentioned somewhere that he was on a glued track (which my car will never see).

    And I completely forgot about using a 6 from a r170. I've worked on tons of manual crossfires, I don't know why it didn't come to me earlier.

    Great to know about the alternate pistons for a lower compression ratio also!

    Many thanks!

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