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Thread: Brown Benz (M104-Megasquirt)

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    Rochester NY
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    Brown Benz (M104-Megasquirt)

    As a followup to the Blue Benz and it's catastrophic malfunction, this is my new official "member ride" thread.

    Background - Blue Benz

    From that car I have a complete 5-speed swap. If anyone has input on compatibility or other parts I should retrieve, please chime in.

    I will be using the transmission, flywheel, driveshaft, brace bar, pedals, and shifter from that car. I also grabbed the brake fluid reservoir, haven't checked if I actually need to swap it though.

    I have new master and slave cylinders and ordered a SPEC stage 2 clutch they have listed for an 84 190e which is rated for 294 lb-ft. Should be enough for a slightly modded M104 while maintaining good drive-ability and without destroying the transmission.

    Pics of all three 190e's together a while back:




    I picked this girl up from Buffalo, about two hours from me, for $900. Engine has a thrown rod or something else seriously wrong. But it's an Arizona car with 71,xxx miles on it!!!! Crystal Clear underneath and inside.





    Still has the factory Mercedes battery and First Aid Kit! There's a few unfortunate dents and scratches but they can be resolved.
    I used the suspension in the blue car for a rallycross so I put on my H&R Cup kit and $100 set of wheels to roll it around. I've got some Euro headlights to put on soon.



    The front WILL need to be lifted. This kit is meant for a 2.3 so that big engine is just too much weight. The back is good though. My BBS RX 17's are powder coated now and have a smaller overall diameter tire which will help a bit. Nitto NeoGens 205-40-17 vs the 205-50-17 which are on now plus some modest stretch with the wider wheels.

    3.2-24 valve M104 out of a 95 E320 W124. Junkyard motor, turns by hand well. Kinda nice, this motor has about the same number of miles as the car it's going in. It also came with the non-biodegradable wiring harness which is a huge bonus.



    I was going to do a head gasket but I don't have time for it and there were no noticeable oil leaks in the problem zone... yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'll do it once I know it all works and I get to have some fun.

    I did do the upper timing cover seals and new valve cover gasket. Also got the valve cover powder coated to match the wheels.



    I have a Non-ASR throttle body from a member here to be cable driven but can also be wired to give a TPS reading. Bought a 60-2 Trigger wheel and VR Sensor Bracket also from a member here. Management will be a Megasquirt 3 v3.0 which I assembled myself and it has passed all the voltage tests. I'm just hoping my soldering doesn't fail me. That as well as an LC-2 Wideband O2 Sensor and controller came from DIY-AutoTune. They also sell a Quadspark coil driver which I bought. The wiring plan is as follows:

    -Reuse original (replaced) wiring harness to maintain OE look and plugs.
    -Reroute original crank position VR sensor to trigger wheel location and extend those wires.
    -Reuse original cam position VR sensor for additional timing input and ease of calibration.
    -Lop off the original ECU plug and begin my custom wiring harness from there. SG-Motorsports has the wiring diagrams I need.
    -Mount the Megasquirt under the passenger seat using the 8' wiring harness for safety, easy access, and maintain use of my glovebox.
    -Use original coils which fire two cylinders each meaning three coils total. The Quadspark has four outputs so that works running a wasted spark configuration.
    -Use original injectors, pressure regulator, and lines.
    -Try to calibrate all original temperature sensors (IAT, Ambient Air, Coolant) this engine does have a variable coolant temperature sensor right? not a switch.
    -Try to tune myself.

    If anyone sees flaws in the plan, please point them out. Starting to pull engine and trans as a unit tomorrow, bringing the flywheel in for resurfacing on Monday. New engine and trans will be installed as a unit as well to avoid 1/8th turns via box end wrench on transmission bolts... most time consuming part of that job, anyone doing it, just buy a 17mm speed wrench.

    Lets Go!!!!
    Last edited by carmaniac37; 09-06-2014 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Broken Link
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  2. #2

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    Started disconnecting the motor yesterday, figured out what was wrong with it...



    That rod certainly was thrown, no where to be found now.

    Getting to it again tomorrow.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  3. #3

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    Sep 2013
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    Everything's loose underneath. Intake manifold off. I'm planning to leave the AC pump connected to the car so I don't have to deal with freon inhalation. Also considering a SMOG pump delete with a shorter serpentine belt. I don't know how your supposed to be able to remove the belt but there's no room between the fan and the radiator to get the bolt out and reach the tensioner bolts. I just pulled it over the top of the idler pulley and water pump.



    Started digging into the wiring loom. Not too daunting.



    Here are the two driveshafts.



    91 2.6 Auto on top/84 2.3 manual on bottom

    The 2.6 has a larger differential so I'll need the rear half shaft from that car and the manual transmission is shorter so I'll use the front half shaft from the 2.3
    Works out nicely since I get to use the newer U-Joint.

    Flywheel's getting resurfaced and will be done Thursday, engine and trans are coming out Thursday, clutch should be here by the end of the week. So far so good.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  4. #4

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    Fremont CA - Bay Area
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    daaaaaammmmmnnnn

    Quote Originally Posted by carmaniac37 View Post
    Started disconnecting the motor yesterday, figured out what was wrong with it...



    That rod certainly was thrown, no where to be found now.

    Getting to it again tomorrow.
    1984 2.3 8v Lorinser - Drift/track competition - "Grønne Pige"
    1984 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Sent to Graveyard - "Steve"
    1985 2.3-16 ECE 5-Speed - Daily - "Darkwing"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM 5-Speed - Donor - "Rusty Trumpet"
    1986 2.3-16 NAM Auto - Basket Case - "Phönix"
    1987 2.3-16 NAM VEMS EFI 5-Speed - Track/Canyon - "Dimples"

  5. #5

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    Sep 2013
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    Engine's out!



    Mmmmm friction surface



    I pulled out the automatic shifter and lone brake pedal. The brake sensor plug is different on the 91 compared to 84. Prongs are closer together and have a guide pin.



    Ground pathways for the guide pins and it popped in nicely to the clutch and brake assembly.





    Clutch should be arriving tomorrow so I should hopefully get the M104/5-speed assembly ready for installation this weekend.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  6. #6

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    Sep 2013
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    Clutch came in on Friday as scheduled. I had to order a new pilot bearing separately so that's coming in on Wednesday.



    Serviced the engine and prepped for installation. New front and rear main seals, flywheel installed. I reused the original stretch bolts which passed all the specs described in the book. Swapped over a bunch of parts from the M103. Alternator and smog pump, easy bolts. Also swapped out the motor mounts which are ever so slightly different. The M104 mounts angle backwards about an extra 20mm. M104 on the left:



    Also got the timing wheel installed. It's a 60-2 wheel from Turbobandit in Sweden meant for an M103 crank pulley. The M104 pulley has a larger diameter bolt pattern so I had to remove the M103 pulley assembly and swap it on. I'm very pleased with this piece. It is the same thickness as and therefor replaces the balancer.



    The tolerances are good and it slots right over the guide pins.



    The pulleys all line up on the front of the engine and the VR sensor bracket will position everything very professionally. The wheel even has a marking for TDC which will be important for calibrating the ECU.

    Little things too... new slave cylinder and throw-out bearing on the transmission, new master cylinder on the pedals, labeled all of the wires on the M104 wiring harness.

    Hitting it again tomorrow.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  7. #7

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    Sep 2013
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    Small thing today, buttoned up my EGR delete stuff. Installed the 5-speed shifter and took a good look at wiring up reverse lights and the starter lockout switch, straight forward enough and covered on the 5-speed swap thread. Also changed the fluid in the 5-speed. Main task was mounting my VR sensor for the trigger wheel. The turbobandit kit I bought second hand came with a bracket which replaces two oil pan bolts with extended bolts and spacers and has a pre-drilled hole for the sensor. I had to open the hole up a bit and play with a couple washer setups to get the spacing right. I'm not sure exactly how close it needs to be but I figure the closer the better. Also drilled and tapped a hole for the VR sensor mounting screw. As I said before, it's the original Crank Position Sensor that used to be on the block side of the bell housing.



    You can see the TDC marking that came on the wheel.

    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  8. #8

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    Pilot bearing came in yesterday as scheduled.
    Installed that, clutch, transmission, and then put the whole thing in the car!






    It looks awesome in there!

    Positioning is good, mounts line up, clearance is good, I'm pleased.

    I also wired up the reverse lights to the 5-speed switch on the shifter. The pin for the brake pedal to the master cylinder has a tab on it which engages the brake light switch. It wasn't reaching the switch though so I made a simple extension by drilling and tapping a hole and threading in an allen bolt. Now it activates the switch so the brake lights won't be on all the time. Looks like this:



    I put on the throttle body and figured out which wires I will need for the TPS. Shown here are the +5v (Red/Yellow) ground (Grey/Black) and signal (Red/White)
    Thanks to MAG58 for that info!



    A little bit of work is involved with the transmission mount which I wasn't expecting. I'm reusing the 2.6 Auto Rubber mount because it's in decent shape. It doesn't fit in the 5-Speed bracket so I ground down the edges on both sides.



    The mounting threads for the bracket are in these rails on either side of the driveshaft tunnel.



    The threads are on sliders which can be moved to different holes on the tracks for many varying configurations... except mine. The holes I need must be farther apart than the threads on the sliders and in a spot on the tracks where there aren't any holes. The plan then is to drill holes in the tracks where I need them and weld on some nuts to the sliders where I need them. Hopefully my welds will keep the nuts from breaking loose and rotating but that should do it.

    Other than that, the 5/reverse shift rod needs adjusting but everything else works. I should have new shift rod bushings coming in next week to tighten it up.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  9. #9

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    Nov 2010
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    Northern Va.
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    Awesome project. How are you planning on controlling idle via megasquirt?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    87' 16v

  10. #10

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    SoCal
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    My buds 2.6 threw a rod. Completly stock. Weird..
    1986 201.034 "Berthilda" 5-speed, Evo II wheels 225/45/17, 400E front swaybar, 400e rear brakes
    1986 201.024 M104 engine, 5-speed Conversion, Updated LE trim console, 400E front sway bar, W202 springs, Limited slip Diff, 16v Steering box, 3" magnaflow exhaust system, 16v body kit, 16v Fuel tank, 16v Brake Booster, 400E calipers, MS2 3.57.
    1993 201.029 Sportline LE.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Reno Nevada
    Posts
    335
    quite the build! Nice work!

    Please dont leave out the juicy details when you build your efi set up.

    Good luck,
    Blake
    -1990 190E 2.6 (to be sold)
    -1989 190E 3.0 5SPD - Resto-Mod, euro lights w/ smoked corners, leather steering wheel, 16v Recaro's front and rear, 16v rear wing, AMG monoblock II's, rear headrests, '93 console w/euro cubby, Apline head, custom trunk audio setup that holds 10" Earthquake sub w/ planet audio 700 watt 5 channel amp.

  12. #12

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    Rochester NY
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    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  13. #13

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    Sep 2013
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    So I was very ambitious and for that reason have skimped on the updates, but long story short I took the car to H2Oi last weekend. I had planned to take the silver 2.6 auto and cruise down with a few buddies and their cars. With the radiator bracket in the state it was I thought of this car could make it the 45 minutes to our meeting point then it could make it the 8 hours to Ocean City. I was up all night on Wednesday night putting it all together. Took my first test drive at 5 in the morning and declared it ready for Ocean City. In that one night I:
    -turned and milled a new shift linkage end
    -lifted the front suspension
    -swapped wheels
    -installed rear seat and drivers seat belt
    -finished wiring and ziptieing
    -installed bumpers and headlights
    -fuel pump relay
    -starter lockout wiring
    -bled the clutch
    -installed the intake
    -got a ROUGH ROUGH tune in
    -then packed, some clothes but mainly spare parts.

    Shift linkage end:


    Packed and ready:


    Cruising, would never have done this without backup:


    Tuning along the way which turns out I'm really bad at.


    Made it no problems at all, even through the rain. Ran super rich but sounds awesome even with the factory exhaust. Cleaned her up Friday morning:


    I was definitely one of the few Merc enthusiasts but everyone I met loved it including someone who jumped in the back in traffic after hearing what motor I had.


    Quick snap of the strip:




    My official stance:


    And back home on Monday to Lake Ontario completely and utterly problem free.



    The trip was awesome. I was getting about 17 mpg on the way down and tuned it up to 20mpg by the time I got there. (with spirited driving of course)

    I had one catastrophy, my laptop died. Big ole blue screen of death. That ended my tuning for the weekend. Luckily I had it at a high but consistent idle and decent power so the car was liveable. Never over heated, never lost oil pressure. Speedometer read accurately, GPS verified, rpm gauge I haven't gotten working yet. Same with coolant temp but that was all displayed on the laptop. There's still a lot to do to get it running right but until then it's a fun and useable car.

    I'll update again once I get my new SSD installed in my laptop.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    San Diego, Ca.
    Posts
    229
    Quite a rewarding result for all the hard work!
    There's something about thrashing on a project under a deadline for some event that adds an extra thrill and enjoyment to it not to mention giving you the extra motivation and push.
    I don't think I'm the only one that was hoping for & wanting to see more details and pics of the MS conversion to get it where it is now as well as future refinements.
    Congratulations!
    P.S......love the stance!
    1988 300E 3.2 M104 & 5-speed swap; gutted
    1986 300E 5-speed
    1996 C280 Sport
    1977 Ferrari 308 project w/ longitudinal Cadillac Northstar/Porsche G50/50

  15. #15
    If you want to get good throttle response I suggest you to remove bottom aluminum intake and install 2 throttle bodies to upper plastic intake. Other good thing is relocate air filter to cold side.
    Result is awesome.

    Nice car!
    MB 500GE ; MB 560SEC ; MB 190E 2.3-16 ; MB190E 2.5-16
    www.elbe.ee Elbe Engineering - MB performance parts.

  16. #16

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    Rochester NY
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    Thank You, I'm in full agreement. Super rewarding and forced me to be productive. I can't believe this car went from junk to whatever it is now in under a month. That's definitely a personal best.

    The intake relocation is definitely a must. It is the way it is to preserve the Intake Air Temp Sensor. I bet a centrifugal supercharger would compliment that lower intake delete quite well... It's a cool idea, I haven't seen it done before but I'm still new to the M104.

    So here's the dirt on the Megasquirt conversion:

    -Trigger wheel is mounted as described. OE Bosch VR sensor works like a charm. Solid signal, no hiccups yet. I surgically removed the Coaxial cable and plug from the wiring harness, full length, no cuts what so ever. With that plugged in Below the trigger wheel and ziptied up along the radiator support bracket it reaches the provided coax crank input wire from the DIY Autotune 8 foot wiring harness just forward of the battery. Those splice together and make a nearly complete Shielded Coaxial connection from sensor to ECU. Because the CAM input is part of the MS3X expansion plug, I didn't have an 8' coaxial cable to extend off of the M104 wiring harness. I haven't been able to get the CAM input to work and I wonder if it's because of this. Right now the link is made by two wires twisted together. There is continuity on both connections.

    -I'm using the onboard Megasquirt MAP sensor with one big vacuum hose which runs from a barb on the throttle body (after the throttle plate) through the firewall with all the other wires. It's the shortest link in the circuit right now and is the only reason why the ECU is still in the footwell and not under the seat. I just need a double male barb and some more hose to extend it.

    -The Innovate LC-2 Wideband threaded into the OE exhaust bung which is at the X pipe and before any mufflers or cats. The shielded wires run through the factory O2 Sensor hole in the trans tunnel right into the passenger footwell. The wideband controller and all of the wires going to the ECU are tucked into the factory wire pathway that runs along the passenger door sill. Here you can see the MS3 and MS3X harnesses popping out of the wire ducting by the door and I'm tugging on the O2 Sensor cable. Wiring that is easy, just fused/switch 12V, ground, and a signal to the Megasquirt.




    -MS3X has provisions for 8 logic level spark outputs. Since the factory M104 coils are High Current, they need some kind of driver. I used the DIY Autotune Quad Spark. There are four logic inputs which come from the MS3X card and each one is associated with one of 4 outputs. When a signal is received on an input (A,B,C,D) the associated output is grounded. This completes the circuit for the specified coil. This means that three wires are required per coil. One to a good ground, one input from the MS3X, and one from the coil ground. It also means that the firing order of the engine has to be hard wired into the harness. In this case, yes there are 6 cylinders, but there are 3 coils with cylinders A(1,6),B(2,5),and C(3,4) sharing a coil. Each coil fires twice per one complete cycle of the engine. It is important that these pairs stay the same because as one cylinder fires on a compression/power stroke, the pair cylinder fires while exhausting which does no harm. If the pair were to fire while on an intake stroke then detonation would occur and serious damage could be done. The firing order is made simple through this though. The cylinder firing order (1,5,3,6,2,4) gets simplified to Coils (A,B,C,A,B,C). The MS3X card has spark outputs labeled A through H allowing up to 8 logic level spark outputs. I use only A through C but the idea would be the same. Spark output A must include the first fire in the order(Cyl 1), spark output B must include the second in the order (Cyl 5), spark C the third (Cyl 3) and then it repeats for Cylinder 6, then 2, then 4. Here is a photo of my Quad Spark with a fat ground, three inputs from the ECU, and three outputs to the coils.



    -Wiring the injectors involves the same idea. The MS3X has 8 injector outputs which are compatible with HI-Z injector found on the M104. Just like the spark outputs, when an injector is engaged, the specified output switches to ground. These outputs can be wired directly to the injectors but if Sequential injection is or will be desired, the firing order must be incorporated again into the wiring harness. The outputs are labeled A through H once again and will follow that alphabetical order no matter what. Therefor, the injector/cylinder number is paired with the output letter as such. (1,A),(5,B), (3,C),(6,D),(2,E),(4,F), remaining unused outputs for spark or injectors are left disconnected and through the configuration of the ECU will not be used.

    -The QuadSpark has potential to get hot although I've yet to have an issue. Mine is mounted by the various modules in the passenger footwell as seen in the picture.

    -Here you can see where the wiring harness passes through the firewall. My main ground is just one of the big bolts for the dash brace bar. Most everything collects there except for my relays which are grounded right on a chassis ground by the battery. Grounds are easy to find but need to make good contact or strange issues can be had.



    -The power to everything starts in the battery tray off of the lone silver relay of whoms job I'm not sure. It has a fuse on the top and the two yellow wires connecting on the bottom are power feeds off of the ignition switch. I just tapped in to one of those to fire my main power relay.



    It's not very pretty but it works:


    -The generic auto parts store fuse box has a direct power feed from the factory junction box right there by the strut and is switched by the aforementioned ignition wire. One fuse is for the ECU, another for the Wideband and Controller, a third is the power side of the injectors and coils. There is a single power feed which is at the opposite end of the M104 wiring harness as the ECU connector. Ideally, the wires would be separated to have two power tracks, one for spark, one for fuel. I was crunched for time and left them together. This lead comes off of the front of the engine nicely and I ran a wire up the side by my Crank Position Sensor wire to the fuse box to power it.



    -The fourth fuse in my box is switch power for my fuel pump relay. I was hoping to be tricky with this but was unsuccessful and the time crunch forced a new method. The factory fuel pump relay for the 2.6 is the big box labeled MAS with a dial on top with locks and releases the relay from its plug. It takes a power feed and will prime the fuel system for a couple seconds when the ignition turns on. With the presence of an rpm signal coming off of the ignition coil it will continue to run the fuel pump. Now the MS3X has a provision for a tachometer in the way of a tach out pin. I had hoped simply connecting this pin to the rpm signal wire of the relay would make the fuel pump function as normal and, in accordance with the wiring diagram, would provide my RPM guage with a signal. Unfortunately my RPM guage never worked (and still doesn't) and the fuel pump would remain off. I believe the signal generated by the Megasquirt is not a 12v pulsating signal which the car would need but I haven't read enough into it.

    -Instead, I wired the fuel pump the Megasquirt way. The MS3 has a fuel pump driving wire which acts the exact same way the Mercedes module does through a ground wire. I connected another generic relay to power off of the ignition switch and instead of a chassis ground, I used this wire. The fuel pump turns on briefly at ignition on then turns on and stays on once an rpm signal is received by the ECU. If anyone is wondering the wire to the fuel pump is the Black Red and White rope style wire on the bottom of the relay module as shown here.



    I just lopped it off and hooked it to my new fuel pump relay.

    -The Throttle Position sensor is wired as described in a previous post and works just fine. The resolution isn't fantastics so it's a little jumpy but 0% to 100% is consistent.

    That's pretty much the idea. Everything else like coolant and intake air temperature sensors are labeled in the wiring diagram for the M104 and are direct connections to the MS3 wiring harness.

    Class dismissed.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  17. #17
    cool build

  18. #18

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    Sep 2013
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    Rochester NY
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    One big difference between the M103 and M104 which makes this an imperfect swap is the air conditioning mount.

    The air conditioning pumps mount via four long mounting screw which protrude through the housing of the pump and thread into an auxiliary aluminium bracket mounted to the side of the block. This bracket also contains the idler pulley and is responsible for holding the power steering pump and water pump in place as well.

    The M103 Air-Con setup has a cooler for the fuel return line. The mounting points for this line up on the M104 without issue. Since the cooler exists on one of the refrigerant hard lines, it puts the A/C pump in the correct position to be mounted. Unfortunately the M104 A/C pump is larger and has a wider "stance" with regard to its bolt pattern. Therefor the mounting threads on the auxiliary bracket do not match the M103 A/C pump. Here is a picture of the two brackets side by side with the A/C pump threads next to each other.



    The M104 bracket is on the bottom and is obviously too large to mate to the M103 A/C Pump. Unfortunately the goto solution of swapping these brackets is invalid because the M104 bracket encases an opening to the Crankcase and also has a breather hose attached to it. The M104 bracket on top in the next picture shows it has a mating surface which seals onto the block. On the other side there is a barb for a breather hose which runs to the engine head.



    For now my M103 A/C pump is dangling by the fuel cooler and the serpentine belt bypasses above it but I need to devise a way to have functioning Air Conditioning. It may mean building extensions for the bracket or swapping out for an M104 A/C compressor.
    84 8v 5 speed ---- 93 2.6 auto ---- 1.8t swapped Audi Fox ---- 02 Lifted Discovery II

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Pasadena, CA
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    FANTASTIC JOB with the conversion.... keep it up

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    SoCal
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    Nice, im actually doing the same swap right now. Only its a 2.3 body im using.
    1986 201.034 "Berthilda" 5-speed, Evo II wheels 225/45/17, 400E front swaybar, 400e rear brakes
    1986 201.024 M104 engine, 5-speed Conversion, Updated LE trim console, 400E front sway bar, W202 springs, Limited slip Diff, 16v Steering box, 3" magnaflow exhaust system, 16v body kit, 16v Fuel tank, 16v Brake Booster, 400E calipers, MS2 3.57.
    1993 201.029 Sportline LE.

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